Selfish selfish selfish Hollyleaf

To all of you Hollyleaf fans out there, she's a snobby, selfish brat. I re-read Long Shadows today and when I got here, I stopped and started reading something else.

Hollyleaf wrote:I deserve to! Her need tore at her belly like sharp pangs of hunger. I'd work harder than any cat to be a leader, and leave my paw print on all the Clans. I can't let Ashfur destroy all of my plans!

And most of you are calling Tigerstar a bad cat because he wanted to lead ThunderClan? Really? Hollyleaf is an ambitious, snobby brat.

***kicks dirt and Hollyleaf***

I feel, her gathering escapade, was the final stage of her insanity. When someone is going through something so challenging, they tend not to think about the aftermath of what their doing. Hollyleaf was probably the most loyal warrior in the clan; to the warrior code at least. Killing Ashfur must have torn her heart apart with guilt. That guilt would spike adrenaline, which would cause her to make rash decisions. Furthermore, the fact that she ran away after saying all this proved that point. That was something she would never dream of doing, but since returning to the clan was now not something she wanted to do, it was her only choice. At least, as it seemed in an adrenaline-filled hype. If she had calmed down returned to the clan would have made sense, but she didn't wait. She has flaws, which makes her a developed character.

Hollyleaf wrote:I deserve to! Her need tore at her belly like sharp pangs of hunger. I'd work harder than any cat to be a leader, and leave my paw print on all the Clans. I can't let Ashfur destroy all of my plans!

Well, what you say is true, Moonsplash. I mean, she did kill Ashfur. I haven't read Long Shadows in a LONG time. I don't remember seeing that part, but it surprised me. Ashfur did nothing to her, well except for threatening Squirrelflight but still.

Moonsplash wrote:To all of you Hollyleaf fans out there, she's a snobby, selfish brat. I re-read Long Shadows today and when I got here, I stopped and started reading something else.

Hollyleaf wrote:I deserve to! Her need tore at her belly like sharp pangs of hunger. I'd work harder than any cat to be a leader, and leave my paw print on all the Clans. I can't let Ashfur destroy all of my plans!

And most of you are calling Tigerstar a bad cat because he wanted to lead ThunderClan? Really? Hollyleaf is an ambitious, snobby brat.

***kicks dirt and Hollyleaf***

Isn't this offensive to other members? I mean, there are plenty of Hollyleaf fans out there! (But I'm neutral ^.^)

You're weird. She's not snobbish!!! ASHFUR DESERVED IT. HE TRIED KILLING HER LITTERMATES!!! SHE COULDN'T HELP IT!!! And she went INSANE. INSANE!!! What do you expect? >.> You have to read the whole book the get it. I LOOOOOOVE HOLLYLEAF. She is my favorite character in the books because she's so much like me... Except I've never killed anyone. I say things I don't mean like she did.

And Moonsplash, you have the name of one of my EVIL EVIL EVIL Rp characters, Moonsplash. That's weird xD

I have to agree with Rose. This is OFFENSIVE!!! I know lots of people who like Hollyleaf and her storyline! Ashfur wanted to KILL Hollyleaf and her littermates! How could you be so mean? (and don't blame me if more people start arguing ) And it's normal for her to want to be leader. She wanted to WAIT, unlike Tigerclaw! And if you ask me, she'll make a good leader!

She didn't act on her ambitions as much as Tigerstar, and in the end she turned out to be a good cat and save Ivypool's life.

Tigerstar, on the other hand, murdered countless cats and brought Bloodclan to the clans, and don't give me the 'It was Thistleclaw's fault!'. Thistleclaw didn't force him to kill and bring in Bloodclan, Tigerstar did that on his own accord.

It's Thistleclaw's fault that Tigerstar became ambitious, but I agree, Tigerstar did that by choice.

Hollyleaf would have been a good leader.

Moonsplash wrote:To all of you Hollyleaf fans out there, she's a snobby, selfish brat. I re-read Long Shadows today and when I got here, I stopped and started reading something else.

Hollyleaf wrote:I deserve to! Her need tore at her belly like sharp pangs of hunger. I'd work harder than any cat to be a leader, and leave my paw print on all the Clans. I can't let Ashfur destroy all of my plans!

And most of you are calling Tigerstar a bad cat because he wanted to lead ThunderClan? Really? Hollyleaf is an ambitious, snobby brat.

***kicks dirt and Hollyleaf***

Talk about rude! You should be asamed of yourself! I understand you have an opinion, but you are being a jerk. And Tigerstar is a better cat? Oooo-kkk then...But seriously, Tigerstar's ambitions went to destroying a clan, and murdering every cats ion the forest. As I know, Hollyleaf's ambitions were to become a medicine-cat. And Hollyleaf didn't "murder" Ashfur. Hollyleaf protected herself AND her family, from him, and she probably saved lives. But I'm going back to the Tigerstar part. To tell me that it is worse to kill another cat in self defence, than mass-murder a bunch of other cats is honestly the most insane thing I've ever heard.

Well, you have several good points, Lunarlight.

But I agree with Moonsplash.

Perhaps, Hollyleaf would be a favorite character of mine if she wasn't SO obsessed with the warrior code.

But she built her world on the warrior code, and stuck to closely too it. I mean, sure finding out your half clan might be a terrible blow, but that doesn't mean you go out and murder a cat.
I mean, sure, several people think Ashfur deserved it, but in the end, he was just guilty of loving someone too much.

I think, perhaps if Hollyleaf handled herself better, and wasn't madly in love with the Warrior code, things would of ended up better for her. Maybe she would of even been leader if she could of more widely based her opinion.

I like her as a character, but her personality kinda sucks. And she likes the warrior code WAY too much, geez. I mean, it's basically LAWS! How good can any of those be?

Yeah.... I agree with you guys... Hollyleaf loved the warrior code way to much and that was a little too much for me....

Honestly, I didn't have any strong opinions about Hollyleaf, but now that I think about it, I think I can make a few things out of it.


Hollyleaf, when she was introduced, was fine. I didn't really care. As she got more and more ambitious and finally murdered Ashfur, I was really ticked with her. Then she got all hissy about being leader and really ticked me. But then she saved Dovewing and I was neutral again. So yeah, not much to say I think (for me). She's not much like Tigerclaw, either, though. Tigerclaw was a lot more eager than she was and... well, Hollyleaf wasn't evil. She did wait, at least more than Tigerclaw, to start having thoughts about leader though. Basically, to sum this up, I'm neutral with her and her death, to me, wasn't tragic.

Forgive and forget. And how did my last post get two likes? anyways Hollyleaf was driven insane at one point but it was not her fault. I understand you have an opinion, but make sure it isn't rude, k?

Lunarlight, this isn't rude Rude would be getting angry at the people who like Hollyleaf for liking her. Expressing an opinion is different. The topic is meant to be a debate. If someone finds it extremely rude, they don't even have to participate.

I'm not trying to be bossy or act like I'm some mod, I'm just kind of stating my opinion and thoughts here :3

No,

Moonsplash wrote:To all of you Hollyleaf fans out there, she's a snobby, selfish brat.

That simply is simply rude. Read it over and over, and tell me if that is a "friendly opinion".

Yes, it is putting down another person's preferences by trying to tell them they're liking a "bad" cat. You advice was good in your last post, Lunarlight It's good to see your improvement. I'm sure your rep will go up if you continue making posts like these.

Dawn, you have some really good points about the different between insults and opinions I'm sure Moonsplash didn't try to offend Hollyleaf fans personally.

Well for my two cents [actually the penny is no longer used in Canada now, lol.], Hollyleaf has always been a bit.....in your face with the code and everything...to me anyways. That makes her annoying..but not 'bad/evil'.

Ashfur.... I don't know where to begin with his problems

Btw, nice to see you Moonsplash!

HEY! i am a hollyleaf fan because she had to do it! ashfur brought his own death by trying to kill the medicine cat(jatfeather),his own APRENTICE(lionblaze) and a warrior that could of been a good leader! anyway, hollyleaf died a warriors death when ashfur brought his OWN. i understand that ashfur was a honorble warrior but he should of been less cruel to kill 3 cats. did you know he ploted the plan to kill firestar with hawkfrost?

I know about his planning to kill Firestar.Doesn't he admit it somewhere?

yes! when ashfur was trying to kill the three!

Redleaf wrote:You're weird. She's not snobbish!!! ASHFUR DESERVED IT. HE TRIED KILLING HER LITTERMATES!!! SHE COULDN'T HELP IT!!! And she went INSANE. INSANE!!! What do you expect? >.> You have to read the whole book the get it. I LOOOOOOVE HOLLYLEAF. She is my favorite character in the books because she's so much like me... Except I've never killed anyone. I say things I don't mean like she did.

I agree with you on so many levels. My all time least favorite character is Ashfur, mostly because of what he did to Jayfeather. Um, and Hollyleaf. But I don't like Lionblaze. (No offense to some people)

This topic is kind of old  idk if we should be posting on it.
But I agree that Hollyleaf does have... issues... she's ambitious but still a good warrior

I don't really love Hollyleaf, but I don't really hate her either. But what I don't get is, why did she tell everyone the truth at the Gathering, if she killed Ashfur just because he threatened to do the same thing? That's pretty stupid, and completely defeats the purpose.

She was cool in the last book though.

First of all,
Moonsplash, you're being rude by implying that those who like Hollyleaf have bad judgement, and there is already one Hollyleaf thread on the forum, so there was no need to make this one. And Redleaf, you're only making it worse by insulting her back, I am officially warning both of you, as well as anyone else thinking of being rude to others in retaliation, and since the topic is old and some people are getting upset, I'll lock it for now until I can check with the admin.